Friday, July 29, 2011

Alberto Torres

Decades ago, the Torres Brothers (Alberto, Ramon and Enrique) were all top draws in the world of wrestling, though all three are now gone. The trio likewise spent much time in Arizona early in their careers, seeing a load of action in the late 1950s in the Phoenix, Tucson, Casa Grande, Yuma area. Sometimes they worked as singles, sometimes as a three man tag and sometimes switching off with each other in combos for tag matches.

Alberto is the topic of this particular blog.

Born in 1934, he started early in wrestling while still a teenager and developed into a formidable talent over the years. A cannonball off the ropes was some of his most famous moves, though he also used stunning dropkicks and head scissors leaps against his opponents.

During his Arizona stay, Alberto feuded with Ali Pasha, Brute Bemis, Don Arnold, Jim Wright, Tony Barbetta and Juan Sebastian.

There is a chilling similarity between Torres and Wright. After their feud ended, they would share a simialr fate.

In the early 1960s, Wright died in the middle of a tag team match in Phoenix when the strain proved too much on his heart.

Torres died in Nebraska in 1971 following a tag team match where he and Cowboy Bob Ellis faced Ox Baker and The Claw.

As was to be a repeated formula with other Mexican or Latino wrestlers in the time to come, such as with Nano Ortega, Benny Mendeblis, Tito Montez and the like, the Torres family drew big money at the gate when they were matched against Anglo villains.

Don Arnold once remarked at how his matches with any of the three Torres clan woudl guarantee a sell out in Phoenix and Tucson. He also noted that when he won against any of the popular trio, a rematch would mean an equally large gate.

Arnold also noted that Alberto might well have been the best of the three.

Who knows how far he might have gone had he not met such a tragic end.

Sunday, July 24, 2011

Tom Ramirez

After wrestling for varied years in Mexico, Tom Ramirez drifted into Arizona in the early 1970s when Kurt Von Steiger was promoting . He did not get many breaks at this time, In fact, he ended up losing a number of televised matches, as well as undercard bouts to the likes of Chris Colt, Bobby Mayne (Jaggers), Rudy Navarro, Chuck Karbo and Jay Dillon. He eventually ended up as a referee.

When Tito Montez started promoting in 1976, Ramirez received a far bigger push, working both as a wrestler and as a manager. Doing double duty, he gained loads of heat from the fans. As a wrestler he faced  Bob Yuma, Chuck Hondo, Ed Blair, Nick Salinas, Mr, Wrestling, Pancho Pico and Super Argo, while as a manager he oversaw the careers of Tony Hernandez, Al Seneceros and Masked Frankenstein.

The 1980s proved to be a great decade for him, as he appeared in both Arizona and Mexico. People he faced included Section 8, Thrillseeker Terry Zeller, Jody Arnold, Eddie Sullivan, Nano Ortega, Benny Mendeblis, Chuck Hondo, Billy Anderson, Flama Negra, The Pale Riders, Flama Azul, Pedro El Grande, Silver Bullet, Silver Shadow, Phil Melby, Eddie Lopez, Hard Rock Kimbell, Crazy Horse, Renegado, Blind Man  and Eli Hernandez.

The 1990s saw him drifting more into manager work and occasional stints as a ring announcer. In 1995, he packed his things and headed for Juarez. As of late no one has any idea whatever happened to him.

A heavy-set, even fat individual who looked "like a 50 year old cholo" as the late Tona Tomah once put it, he did much with his lack of physique. He even took to calling himself Tom ":The Lover" Ramirez and acted like he felt himself to be the sexiest man alive. The fans hated him for his appearance and actions even before he stepped into the ring.

"Von Steiger didn't use him right," remarked Cowboy Bob Yuma, a short time before his death. "Tito did and so did some of the other people like Bill Johnson and Skip De Jourdey. Von Steiger saw what he perceived as overweight Latino with limited ability, but the latter promoters saw his potential and used him to the promotion's advantage at the gate. When pushed, Ramirez proved himself capable. The people absolutely despised him and he knew how to play off that."

Friday, July 22, 2011

Sam Bass

Sam Bass is remembered mainly for his work as a manager and occasional wrestler for his work in the Tennessee/Kentucky area for Nick Gulas, In whatever function he chose, he has a natural talent for getting  heat from the fans. He was especially talented on the microphone and could work the crowd into a frenzy with his tirades against them or opponents his men would be facing.

In the 1960s, Arizona saw an influx of southern wrestlers. Buddy Fuller made a faltered attempt to develop a second promotion out west, but the cost proved too high for him. Other stars such as Dick Dunn and Len Rossi made occasional trips westward to escape the winters back in their Nashville home base. Bass also decided to make a trip to Phoenix as a suggestion from some of his associates. He did not stay long, but his venture into the Phoenix area was quite successful.

Bass was paired as a manager with the Comancheros/Hell's Angels when they first showed up in the Phoenix circuit in 1967. Together, they worked well, but such was the case for Bass, who proved magical for anyone he was linked with.

On occasional the usual stunts were pulled, such as having the manager banned from the ring or handcuffed to someone to keep him from interfering. Predictably, the Comancheros still found a way to win.

While the Comancheros loved Arizona and became mainstays there, Bass evidently disliked the thought of 115 degree summers and headed back to Nashville. It was a decision that would eventually cost him.

A few years after his Arizona stint, Bass was killed in a  fiery car crash along with Pepe Lopez and Frank Hester on the highway between Memphis and Nashville.

"The wreck was a mess," Don Greene woudl later say. "The entire car just exploded in flames,. They identified the bodies by dental records and by one of the other wrestlers who knew where each man had been sitting."

Greene hesitated and then went on to tell the most chilling part of all..

"I would have been the fourth man in that car as I was supposed to ride with them, but JC Dykes didn't want to drive back to Nashville alone. He was afraid of falling asleep at the wheel, so I said I would go with him instead and I did. Had it not been for him, I would have been in that car and in that wreck also."

The Reptiles

I have no idea who The Reptiles were behind their masks. They evidently dressed in green and showed up in Arizona in 1967, feuding with Pancho Pico and a variety of other partners. Whether they were two guys passing though or locals donning hoods to do double duty and take an added pay off remains a mystery.

As their name implied, they were sneaky, snakelike villains who did a lot of double teaming and switching off with each other when in trouble. This, however, still didn't  get them many wins. They tried, mind you, but like the coyote in the Roadrunner cartoons, things always backfired on them, no matter how thought out.

Eventually Reptile #2 disappeared, either moving onward or removing his hood in secret and continuing on other Arizona cards under a different name. Reptile #1 lingered for a while, teaming with other wretslers, but the impact was not the same. By 1968 he was also out of the area or working there without a mask.

Thursday, July 21, 2011

"Fuji, hell! That's Nano Ortega!"

Yashinomi Fuji first emerged in Idaho for some independents in 1980, as a stocky, bald headed oriental, though the traditional slant of the eyes (I can think of no politically correct way to put it) didn't seem quite right and though he claimed to be from Tokyo, he spoke no Japanese. Other things, however, he did have in common with great Japanese and Pseudo-Japanese villains from the past. He bowed, he threw salt around the ring in an opening ceremony and into he eyes of opponents at the end of his matches and used the judo chops when the ref was not looking.

Sadly, the promotion folded.

Yashinomi  Fuji showed up next in Phoenix and the crowd was not fooled. As he made his debut for Chuck Hondo's shortlived promotion at the St  Mary's Gym, he prepared to face off with Benny Menedeblis.

"Fuji, hell," some fan yelled, provoking much laughter. "That's Nano Ortega!"

Hondo's promotion and the Fuji persona lasted all of three weeks. Then both went into history.

A closer look revealed Fuji was indeed Mexican wrestler, Nano Ortega, with a shaved head.

"Well, he always did look kind of like a Jap, so what's the difference," remarked fellow wrestler, John Ringer.

"I guess he just got tired of being Nano Ortega and a fan favorite and decided to do something different for a while in a different part of the United States," explained Mike Gordon in regard to the situation after Hondo's cards folded and Fuji went back to being Nano. "The thing is in other places he pulled it off, but in Phoenix the fans recognized his change in personality and nationality. They didn't know him as Nano in Idaho, but here they did, because he was previously established as Nano. The bald head and the change in name didn't cut it."

For as short as it ran, the "Fuji" vs. Mendeblis feud had some big moments and some memorable matches.

However, nothing stands more memorable than that shout from the disillusioned fan.

"Fuji, hell. That's Nano Ortega!"

 One of the all time funniest lines ever screamed by a fan in Arizona..

Tuesday, July 19, 2011

Jody Arnold

In 1968. a muscular kid from Tempe by the name of Joe Jobe made his debut in Arizona, wrestling Mike Gordon to a 20 minute draw. He easily defeated some others after that and disappeared, in spite of his popularity with the crowd. Some weeks later he was back on TV, but this time in the company of Don Arnold, who was perhaps the most hated man in Arizona rings. So much for  popularity, as Joe announced he was really Jody Arnold, was Don's nephew and a new era would be coming to the grappling game.

A series of feuds saw Jody replace his uncle as the most vile villain in the Phoenix/Tucson area. Ron Pritchard, Tito Montez, Johnny Kostas and Cowboy Bob Ellis were just some of the people he feuded with. In the ring he was brutal. On the microphone he was detestable. The "high" (or low) point came when he arrived for a televised promo, dressed in a Mexican storeroom and with a greasepaint mustache on his face, announcing he was "The real Tito Montez." He then went in to say how as ""Tito" he feared "Jody Arnold" and since he could not beat Arnold in the ring, would have to pick melons as a field worker to put beans on the table so his family would not starve. This of course provoked rage from the predominantly Hispanic audience and a vow for revenge from Montez on the upcoming card. A group of Mexican fans were  arrested before this show as they were caught passing out switchblades in a plan to take the Arnold issue into their own hands. Even with these people out of the picture, there were enough fans to riot during the encounter. "I grabbed a security guard's nightstick and cleared my own path back to the locker room," Arnold commented when asked about the match years later.

A decade later, the feud was still on. In 1978, Jody became the first man to ever beat Montez in a cage match and subsequently win his version of the US title, which he would keep until retirement in 1988.

The 1970s saw Jody as one of the undisputed stars of western rings. He won the Indie US title and also held the Arizona title several times. Aside from those mentioned,  he likewise had notable matches or extended feuds with Woody Farmer, Afa & Sika (The Samoans), David Rose, Nano Ortega, Kurt Von Steiger, Tony Hernandez, Eddie Lopez, Cowboy Bob Yuma, Pancho Pico, Phil Melby, Bob Lueck  and Navajo Frank.

Then in 1981 an amazing thing happened. A new promoter took over and saw Arnold as a great draw as a fan favorite. He did not change his style, but simply started facing the men fans hated instead.

The Lumberjacks, Masked Frankenstein, John Ringer, Hollywood Brown, Rick Davidson, Gator Wolf, Eddie  Sullivan, The Savage and even Billy Graham became his challengers. You didn't hear much about it in the mainstream, but Arnold actually won a  victory over Graham by pin.

Old Ring Wrestling and Official Wrestling magazines carried articles on Arnold on the early 1980s if you can find them. There are also some brief clips of him in action on dvd at in the 3 dvd set 50 Years Of Arizona Wrestling,

In 1996, Arnold was instrumental in working to organize the first Az. Old Timer Reunion and did so through 1998. Afterward, the gatherings were disbanded until 2001, when they were revamped and are still held to this day.

Several of Jody's sons went on to be outstanding amateur wrestlers and in some cases, coaches.

Other Jody trivia? Jody was the first and one of the few men to make Afa The Samoan bleed. Few opponents  ever escaped his bearhug or his back breaker. Arnold likewise won more battle royals than any wrestler in history in Arizona. The closest call to losing came when he and Nano Ortega were left in the ring  and they decided to split the money when both were hated heels. As they embraced,. Arnold proved there was no honor among thieves and threw Ortega through the ropes to eliminate him and win. This of course created an Arnold vs Ortega feud.

Monday, July 18, 2011

Bull Zambrano

Jesse "Bull" Zambrano  started wrestling in 1987 and continued mainly in the Pheonix area throughout  the next decade. He eventually retired to start a soccer supply store. Through effective as a singles grappler, he was better known as part of a three man tag team with JT Law and Lance Ferraro as The Pale Riders

Among the people Zambrano faced in the Phoenix area were The Black Mamba, John Ringer, the Lumberjacks, CC Starr. David Rose, Thrillseeker, Bonecrusher, Eli Hernandez, Tony Hernandez, Eddie Lopez, Louie Spicolli, Flama Negra, Special Forces, Steve Gator Wolf and Crazy Horse.

A short and stocky wrestler, Zambrano used a load of power moves in his matches. Body slams, crushing headlocks and full nelsons were constants in his bouts. Sometimes he was cheered and sometimes he was booed, depending on what oppoennt he or his tag partners faced.

Where JT Law made it to Canada and Mexico and Lance made it to Texas, Zambrano preferred to stick to his Phoenix base. He did, after all, have a second love in soccer and other ties that kept him in Arizona. had  he chosen to travel more often, he could have  possibly become a major star in some territories still around at the time, but that was not his destiny.

Aside from wrestling for other offices, Zambrano also ran some shows of his own in 1990 in a soccer auditorium, with Law, The Beast, Louie Spicolli, Billy Anderson, Tony Hernandez, Miss Vicious and others.

Thursday, July 14, 2011

Gallo Castro

Wrestling as Gallo Castro with a mask on and as Coyo Castro without it, this Mexican wrestler operated out of Nogales for many years and was regularly booked by promoter Pedro Gonzalez for shows. He main evented several times at the Pedro Gonzalez arena and in the local bullring, where he was known as a rule breaking "rudo" who would stoop to nothing to win,.

Castro also saw himself booked in Mexicali, Tijuana, Juarez, San Luis Rio Colorado, Hermosillo, Piedras Negras, Ensenada, San Felipe, Agua Prieta, Naco, Sasabe, Ciudad Obrehon, Santa Ana, Delicias and Torreon in the northern part of Mexico. He also made it to Guadalajara, San Luis Potosi, Aguascalientes and Mexico City in the interior.

Though he always had ambitions of becoming a major draw in the USA, he was not given the opportunities he hoped for. He did received various stints in Arizona from 1972-1976, but only at irregular intervals, perhaps due to problems with immigration and work permits.

For a time he was paired with another masked wrestler, El Mustang from out of Juarez. Together, they were over big in Phoenix, but again did not stay long.

When Paul Harvey was promoting in the Phoenix/Tucson area, he had ambitions of gestation himself booked in Juarez and Nogales himself, so he tried to work out a trade deal with the Mexicans. This saw him uniting Mustang and Castro again for a feud with Al Seneceros and Tony Hernandez. After much promising from both sides, no trade deal of any major worth ever came into being. Harvey stayed in Arizona and the Mexicans returned yo their homeland.

Castro continued to wrestle in Mexico until he retirement in the 1980s. Afterward, he trained younger men to enter the profession. Most of them became stars in Mexico, but like their mentor, just could no get a  decent break that would last in the USA.

John Shane

John Shane started in Arizona in the 1960s and had he not done so well in his daytime job within law enforcement, he would have traveled out more often, becoming a far bigger name.

Early in his career, Shane was seen on the undercard or occasionally teaming with one or both of the Monroe brothers. It was not until 1966 that a feud with Ray Gordon would launch him into main events.

The feud was born simply enough. After losing by pin to Gordon at the Phoenix Madison Square Garden, Shane reached out and offered to shake hands with the winner. He then stomped the  hell out of him after the fact and the battle was on.

Two years later, they were still at it. Others were involved by then, which led into a series of six man brawls with Gordon, Tito Montez and Cowboy Bob Ellis taking on Shane, Chuck Karbo and Henry Pulusso.

Other wrestlers Shane faced in various towns on the Arizona circuit included Eddie Lopez, Kiko Torres, Ken Lucas, Eddie Sullivan, Nano Ortega, Pepe Romero, Bruce Kirk, Luis Martinez, Wally Steele, Armon Hussein, Tony Hernandez, Phil Melby, Roy McClarity, Ham Lee, Jim Wright, Oscar Salazar, Rocky Smith, Pancho Pico, Dick Dunn, Jose Lothario, Joe Colt, Eduardo Lynch, Johnny Colt, Man Mountain Mike and The Bat. During most of his encounters he used a sleeper hold as a finisher and provoked the crowd to even greater anger when, after winning a good number of matches, continually put off waking his defeated opponents up.

Oddly enough, after a career spent in the role of "heel" Shane turned into a fan favorite just before  retirement. Maybe he wanted to go out with a bang, so in the 1970s he saw himself being cheered.

His last Phoenix feud came with a set of matches facing a younger and equally sinister Paul Harvey.

In 1997, Shane said farewell to Arizona when he showed up at the Old Timer Reunion held in Tempe. Afterward, he moved to Oregon.

Tuesday, July 12, 2011

Eli Hernandez

Eli Hernandez started in 1981 with the WSWA  promoters out of Phoenix and continued to wrestle for two decades, until his knee problems forced retirement upon him.

Hernandez wrestled as a single, feuding with Masked Frankenstein, The Lumberjacks and John Ringer in his early years. For the majority of his career, he was cheered by the fans and exemplified a scientific style.

In 1989, Hernandez formed the Avengers tag team with Mike Contreras, feuding with Sergeant Schultz 1&2 and Special Forces.

One match at Graham Central Station in Phoenix in the spring of 1991 pulled in over 2,000 people which was an incredible draw for an Indy show with no television. This encounter  pitted Hernandez and Contreras against the Special Forces once and saw the fan favorites defeating the quasi-military villains. Sadly, however, it was in this match Hernandez twisted his leg and received the first of multiple knee injuries that would drive him from the game.

Other wrestlers Hernandez faced over the years included Hot Stuff Hellraiser, Lance Ferrarro, Bull  Zambrano, JT Law, The Detroit Mauler, Thrillseeker, The Black Mamba, David Rose, Bronco Lazar, Sicilian Slammer, Bonecrusher and Louie Spicolli.

When wrestler Eddie Lopez ran briefly in 1982, Hernandez did double duty as he worked for him, wretsling as himself and also under a mask as Calibus, but did not keep the hooded routine for long.

Monday, July 11, 2011

Stephen De Leon

Stephen De Leon was a smaller guy, but nonetheless effective as a wrestler. Operating out of California, he made various trips into the Phoenix/Flagstaff circuit, but was seen more often in the Los Angeles area, which can be understood. He was reportedly a student of Jesse Hernandez.

In the early days, De Leon was a fan favorite who was seen continually in the L,A. area. He was also brought into Phoenix in the late 1980s when the UAWA operated in Toolies nightclub. One of his wildest matches was a brawl with Tim Tall Tree

De Leon also worked for Gator Wolf, who chose to book him not as a hero to fans, but as a rulebreaker. It would be in this capacity that he would really catch on.

Not only would De Leon stomp, cheat and kick for the duration of his trips to Arizona, but would maintain the new personality with much success among the independents in California.

Where he had only been used sporadically before, De Leon became a mainstay as a villain for the AIWA run by Ahrens, which held shows for many years on a circuit of Los Angeles suburbs. He had a long feud with Alex Knight who was their promotion's champion.

Overall, while De Leon could wrestle as scientifically as anyone else, he was far better as one of the proverbial bad guys.

During his lengthy AIWA run, he proved very skilled on the microphone. One appearance on the Ed & Ron Show which was a public access program operated by the promoters in which they featured weekly guests giving interviews both in and out of the wrestling realm, saw him provoke so many call-in complaints he was not allowed back.

In Arizona also, De Leon was able to use his skills as a talker, even without the benefit of a televised product. All he had to do when wanting to provoke the crowd to hate him was grab the mike and say a few words about the local venue or audience.

De Leon was killed in a motorcycle accident in the Los Angeles area when he was sideswiped by another driver who was  not paying attention on where he was going and drifted into the other lane

Thursday, July 7, 2011

Fancy Boy Quinn

Fancy Boy Quinn could have done more in wrestling if he really wanted to, but that would have meant traveling and having a secure job by day as a school teacher, he was not really interested in hitting the road. Though there are no accounts of him ever actually wrestling as far as I recall and I note I could be wrong there, he did make a fine manager.

A nervous -looking little guy who looked like he was about to  crap his pants in front of the crowd, was what I always thought he looked like when he made his way to the ring, but once he was out there, he transformed into a total jackass, whcih was what made the people hate him. When he got on the microphone, he was abrasive, obnoxious and had a voice like nails on a chalk board.

A frail looking guy who resembled a school teacher moonlighting as a manager (uh, anyway), he dressed in the style of some manager from the 1970s, wearing a coat, tie, hat and shiny shoes. Often he had an unlit cigar in his mouth.

I am not sure how many of his students knew what he did by night.

When he grabbed the microphone, the people were booing him before he even started, for they knew they were going to hate whatever came out of his mouth, with that annoying voice of his.

I bet he yelled a lot as he taught his students by day too.

Quinn seldom left Tucson for shows, let alone Arizona.

The biggest push for this manager came in the 1990s, when Ron Sutherland was running in Tucson. Quinn managed a number of regional villains, mainly those trained to work for this promotion and did so with considerable skill. His main attribute was again, his ability on the microphone.

Usually, the formula saw him sending people  after Sutherland, Navajo Warrior, Shooting Star, Death Dealer, Lance Ferraro  and other favorites with this promotion. One of his main tag teams went as Gamara and Rodan, from the Japanese horror films,While the image of gigantic monster heels comes to mind upon hearing these names, they were in truth smaller, but not untalented wrestlers.

Quinn retired from managing wrestlers  in 2000 or so, but may still be teaching.

Pat Patterson

The Canadian wrestler, Pat Patterson, would rank as one of the greatest wrestlers and certainly the best brawlers of all time and I say that quite confidently. He would also rank as one of the most brilliant minds in booking and matchmaking that I can think of. personal opinion, mind you, but I believe many will agree. His long run in te San Francisco area, his overseas appearances and his varied WWF actions over the decade are well known. From his donning a mask while still using the Pat Patterson name and not hiding his identity in California, but loading the mask to win matches illegally to his thing with Slaughter and Brisco as one of the "Stooges" in the WWF, he was always over big with the crowd. Sometimes he was loved (as when he turned on manager Lou Albano and was blasted with a chair for this) and sometimes hated (as in the bulk of his California/Nevada  run for Roy Shire.) In any case,. he was not ignored.

Patterson received a push in Arizona in the 1960s, where the audience went with hating him. In 1964, he saw considerable action in Phoenix and Tucson, both in tag team matches and in singles events. He teamed with Tony Bernardi and with Don Kent, as he feuded with Frankie Cain.

Tito Montez, Arizona's eternal good guy, also had some encounters with Patterson that escalated from scientific opening moments into bloody wars.

"I remember wrestling him," Tito said in a 2005 phone conversation. "We were both a lot younger then."

Montez also brought up that Patterson formed  a brief team with a more obscure regional grappler named Koko Tojo. At first I thought Tito's memory was failing him, but research proved there was indeed a wrestler  by this name in the 1950s and 1960s in the state,. He and Patterson did team up, where theory usually faced Tito and Frankie Cain.

 Where Tito chose to remain in Arizona as a home base,  occasionally traveling out as the bookings came, Patterson did not stagnate in the Wild West. He went everywhere, won championships and became a star of global proportions.

Though his Arizona matches in the 1960s were often outstanding ones, Patterson would not be seen regularly in the state again until the 1980s, when the WWF started invading all the territories and becoming a mega promotion.  By this time, however, it was more often than not behind the scenes in an "office" or "road agent" capacity.

Friday, July 1, 2011

Losing It ...The Film

If you can find the 1983 film Losin' It./Losing it on DVD or video, get it. The movie features a group of high  school teens set in the 1960s, going down to Tijuana for a party time that ends up disastrous. The flick stars a young Tom Cruise in the main role, plus Shelley Long, Henry Darrow and others.

The fun for the wrestling fans begins when the real trouble starts for the over-sexed teenagers, when one  ends up in jail. There, he confronts the jail boss, a rough convict played convincingly by Arizona-based wrestler,. Cornelio "Tony" Hernandez.

Hernandez started wrestling in Phoenix in the 1960s and extended his career into the 1990s, as well as a rare appearance in the 2000s. He presently runs an upholster  shop in Phoenix. While always a mainstay in Arizona/California, he wrestled in various other locations over the years, including a stay for the old Amarillo office, though he was not pushed like he could have and should have been. Hernandez held the Arizona State title several times.

People he faced over the years for either a one time or occasional shot or in some cases long feuds, include Tito Montez, Eddie Sullivan, John Ringer, Terry Funk, Don Fargo, Don Arnold, El Mustang, Coyo Castro,  Nano Ortega, The Lumberjacks, Mike Gordon, Cowboy Bob Yuma, Chuck Hondo, JT Law, Jody Arnold, The Medics, Chuck Karbo, the Von Steigers, Billy Anderson, Pancho Pico, Super Argo, Killer Brooks and Phil Melby.